t. political satirist. >> thank you for having me on a said day such as this. >> eliot: thank you. john fugelsang stay tune to enter the war room with jennifer granholm. have a great weekend. good evening, i'm jennifer grandholm. tonight we're going to talk about the tragic events of this day. it has been a day of mourning and sadness, and frustration and reflection, and we're going to start with the latest information, but then we're going to ask the question. why? why did this happen? and how can we possibly prevent it from ever happening again? we begin in aurora, colorado, where during the midnight showing of the "dark knight rises," the newest batman movie, a can gunman using assault weapons killed at least 12 people and injured at least 59

others. brandy hit has the latest from aurora. >> the screams in terror weren't a reaction to the action happening on screen, but from the hail of bullets fired bay rampaging gunman. >> and you just kept hearing it. >> reporter: eyewitnesses say the gunman first tossed what appeared to be a smoke grenade. >> all i kept thinking if i stand up he is going to shoot, and i was trying to think how am i going to get my kids out of there. >> reporter: some movie goinger were confused. >> i see a guy right next to me -- a gentlemen getting shot when i realize this is not part of the movie. >> reporter: jennifer said the gunman was dressed like a s.w.a.t. team member. >> he engineered up shooting people behind me and the bullet

casing were on my forehead. >> reporter: james holmes the respect was arrested as he left the theater. >> he was apprehended with three weapons in the car. >> reporter: according to one police firm, holmes told investigators he was the joker. . >> he looks like a deranged individual. he had his hair painted red. >> reporter: holmes told police his apartment was booby trapped. we're also learning more about the alleged gunman. he purchased all of these guns legally in the last few months and he also had a degree in neuroscience. we came across shocking statistics today, at least to me. according to the brady center to prevent gun violence there are an average of 20 mass shootings

each year in the united states. this morning's was the country's worst since november 5th, 2009, when an army psychiatrist killed 13 soldiers and sieve villains at fort hood. have been lots of others like on january 8th, 2011, six people died and 13 others including gabrielle giffords were wounded when a gunman opened fire. and tragedy struck virginia tech in blacksburg virginia on april 16th, 2007, when a student killed 32 people and injured 25 others. the shooter later took his own life. and of course there was the awful incident at call line also in colorado. on april 20th, 1999 two students went on a shooting spree at columbine high school and 14 people died and the gunmen later killed themselves.

why am i revisiting all of this terrible history? because not even those high profile events lead to any significant changes in gun laws. fact a federal ban on assault weapons expired in 2004, and had that ban still be in place, maybe the gunman wouldn't have been able to purchase the weapon in this attack. all of the weapons used in this tragedy were obtained legally. joining me here in san francisco, is ben zanhouten. thank you so much for joining us inside "the war room." >> thank you. >> you bet. let me start with the type of weapon that he had, this gunman had. he had an ar-15 with a high capacity drum magazine apparently attached to it.

that magazine obviously is for the purpose of having large amounts of ammunition so you don't have to go back and reload. are those magazines legal? >> in most states they disturbingly are. so the assault weapon ban also banned large magazines. and as you noted it expired in 2004, and now it's up to states to ban large-capacity magazines. >> how many have bans? >> it's a handful. four or five. >> so this ar-15 semiautomatic assault rifle, how -- how quickly does -- when we say semiautomatic -- automatic assault rifle -- automatic guns are like machine guns and they

are illegal. the semiautomatic are they be designed to shoot like automatic. >> absolutely. they can shoot rapidly and spray fire. these are weapons that allow people to get shots off as quickly as you can pull the trigger. >> he was apparently able to get off at least 100 rounds in a very short amount of time. in fact the police respond within 90 seconds of getting the 911 call and yet he was able to shoot 71 people. to me that is the biggest example of why this kind of weapon need not be in the possession of people.

why do we -- what are the other reasons to have an assault weapon like that? >> i certainly don't have any. the ability to not to have to reload means a shooter can get off significantly more shots. if the shooter had to reload there is a greater chance for law enforcement to intervene and people to get out of the situation. >> some of these weapons were bought from chain stores. are we wrong to assume that these chain stores do a better job of checking the background of buyers? >> you know, i'm going to withhold judgment. we know that the atf does not have the resources to investigate fire arms dealers, so i think it's too early to say. >> well, the -- the -- the reason why so much gun sale occurs is because laws are lax, right? >> absolutely. >> and so why are laws lax? >> well, it's just a political

reality in part i think. i think if people new how lax the laws were -- if you poll people on gun laws they will say at the same time that they think the laws should remain the same, but if you ask them about specific policies they say oh yeah, we should have x,y, and zpolicies in place. the reality is in too many our legislators are failing us. >> is it the nra? >> it a partly the nra. i think part of it is too, though, if the nra is the only voice in the room then legislatures will listen to the nra. gun violence is an epidemic in this country. 30,000 are killed and 70,000 are

injured by guns every year in america. and people need to convey that message to the legislatures. >> nra members themselves many of whom support rational gun laws, don't they? >> that is absolutely right. >> so why is there a disconnect between the membership of the nra and the policy arm of the nra? >> i think the policy arm likes to create fear campaigns. we're told that any step towards reasonable gun laws is going to be a full-scale confiscation. >> who is on the board of the nra? >> that's a good question -- >> gun manufacturers are on the board aren't they? not totally, but there are a number on the board -- >> the manufacturing industry is very connected to the nra, and with good reasons. and i think fear campaigns and the increase in military-style

weapons, those are to cater to people to get them to buy more guns. >> all right. i really appreciate you coming on. the bottom line is states can pass assault weapon bans but have not done so probably pressure. appreciate you coming on. thank you. coming up on the show more about gun laws and the gun culture. we're going to speak with someone in colorado and hear the reaction from our national leaders, and we will be right back.

right by those who gave their lives to for this country nearly 70 years ago.

tonight we're dedicating this entire show to the tragedy in aurora, colorado and its aftermath. let's get you caught up on the latest. 12 people killed, 59 injured in colorado. 100 rounds of ammunition were fired at least that's what we believe at the moment. the 24-year-old, james holmes is in custody tonight and the former neuroscience honor student was dressed head to foot in body armor. he was wearing a gas mask. he admitted to dressing or being the joker, as the joker in bathman. authorities say all of the weapons used in the massacre were purchased legally. joining me now from washington to discuss what changes we might expect in the wake of this tragedy is mark glaze. he is the director of mares against illegal guns. thank you so much for joining us

tonight inside "the war room." >> thanks for having me governor. >> you bet. i want to start by reading off some statics for our viewers. in one year finland had 17 gun murders, canada had 200, and there were 9484 murderers by gun in the united states. how do you account for the vast disparity? >> well, the reason is obvious. the united states has the most lax gun laws of any western democracy and of much of the world, and the reason for that is the gun lobby has exercised a lock over congress and state legislatures where a lot of good work can and sometimes does get done, but people on our side of the equation need to get much more aggressive and use the fact that the overwhelming major of the americans support

solutions, and mayors like myself run on and get elected on. >> hang on. want to -- want to have you talk about the specifics of what the mayors support. but just on this particular case, there are reports that the suspect fired as many as a 100 rounds, and he actually purchased 6,000 rounds within the last 60 days online. is there any reason that a civilian would need to have an assault weapon or a large amount of ammunition like that, and why haven't more cities taken action? >> let me give you maybe a little bit of an orthodox answer to that question. my dad was a federally licensed gun dealer in the mountains of colorado. but this is not my father's nra.

back in the day, he sometimes sold semi automatic weapons, and the reason was because sometimes people wanted them for protection and sometimes they wanted them for sport. but the fact is because there are so many loopholes in the law and the background check system so many people who shouldn't have these guns are getting their hands on them. so we should have a debate about whether he should ban high-capacity magazines or something, but you don't even have to get there to do the things that simply make common sense, like making sure everybody in this country gets a background check. >> high capacity magazine -- when somebody is buying 6,000 rounds within two month, you got to be some full-time hunter to use up that level of ammunition -- >> and as a former hunter if

you are shooting something with that many rounds of ammunition you are not much of a sportsman. >> what would the mayors do? would the changes you are advocating have an impact on what happened today? >> having a universal background check system is very important -- >> but this guy didn't have a record. >> that's right. as far as we know, he didn't. and we may in the coming days, and i hope we don't learn that there were serious red flags in terms of mental health issues that should have let people know that this was somebody who needed to be flagged. and that may not happen. but with 34 people being murdered every day, many of these people that commit those murders are felons mentally

will domestic abusers, all of which are not allowed to own a gun. >> and just for our viewers, when they are private sales they are being sold at a gun show by a individual and not a licensed gun seller and those individuals don't have to do a background on whoever they are selling to. which is a huge loophole. >> that's right. there are a number of other things you could do that have overwhelming support one is that there should be a federal trafficking statute that makes at it very serious crime for somebody like me who doesn't have a criminal record so far, to buy a bunch of guns and then sell them to somebody else who wouldn't buy them today it's a paperwork crime, and it's very

hard to prosecute. >> isn't that exactly the issue with fast and furious, because there is no federal trafficking statute. and that has been blocked as well, has it not by intensive lobbying. >> that's exactly right. to be fair, i spent a lot of time on the hills and i'm talking with democrats and republicans about why -- because everybody thinks this is a good idea, you would put away some criminals. you pass something like a trafficking statute, let's be -- even in the way we handle this, those of us who are obama supporters have to get the president to do more, and he said he supports many of these solutions. and those of us who are republicans need to tell mitt romney why don't you live up to the words that you spoke when you are governor of massachusetts.

>> i think you are right. both sides need to be stronger about this. and both sides appear to be very concerned about the impact of the gun lobby, and the question is -- and i would raise this with you as well, my prior guest acknowledged that members of the nra, the folks who are law-abiding, gun-owning citizens, agree there needs to be rational gun laws. why doesn't the leadership of the nra fall into line? >> there's a couple of things at work here. and it is the great story waiting to be told. the first is the percentage of gun-owning households in this country has been in steady decline for a generation. so the gun is forced to sell more and more military-type guns to a smaller number of households. so it becomes the job of the nra to prop up this industry. the nra has in some respect won. if you are my dad and you are a gun dealer you want the right to

have a gun in your home for self-defense. but the nra would dry up and go away if they were satisfied with that. so we get a $240 million a year organization that can't thrive unless it operates on a code of fear tactics. >> mark, i really appreciate your leadership on a day like today. >> thank you. >> tragics like today happen far too often in this country. we'll take a look at what leaders might do in the future. >> the people we lossed in aurora loved and they were loved. they were mothers and fathers husbands and wives, sisters and broughters, sons and daughters,

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(vo) every week night, cenk uygur calls out the mainstream media. >> overwhelming majority of the country says tax the rich, don't go to war. i'm sure that many of you who are parents here had the same reaction that i did when i heard this news. what if my girls had been at the theater? michelle and i will be fortunate enough to hug our girls a little tighter tonight. and i'm sure you will do the same with your children. but for those parents who are not so lucky, we have to embrace them and let them know we will be there for them as a nation.

>> that's president obama extending comfort to the families of victims. mitt romney also set aside his stump speech and offering his condolences. >> there will be justice for those responsible, but that is a matter for another day. today is a moment to grieve and remember, to reach out and to help. >> neither candidate specifically addressed the issue of gun control today, of course but there is no doubt they will be fielding questions on it soon. and joining me tonight from washington, d.c. to talk about the tragedy in colorado is ann pollster. she is the president of lake research partners. thank you for joining us inside "the war room." >> thank you. thank you for having me. >> you bet. the president and mitt romney took a step back from politics

today, but new york's mayor had no qualms about speaking out on gun control. >> smoothing wores are nice but maybe it's time that the two people who want to be president of the united states stand up and tell us what they are going to do about it. because this is obviously a problem across the country. no matter where you stand on the second amendment and guns we have a right to hear from both of them concretely. not just in generalities specifically what are they going to do about guns? >> will gun control now be a presidential issue? >> sadly probably not. because the candidates probably won't differ much in their position. and that is a huge missed opportunity because it is completely out of sync with the voters. both of these candidates will end up fighting this fall over independent women voters.

and independent women voters want to ban semi automatic assault weapons. and you don't need anything that fires 100 rounds of am mission. and i say this as an ex-nra myself, a competitive marksman grew up in montana, you don't need that kind of weapon. and the major from columbus said it best -- he had a son who was a sniper in a hot shot team in iraq and a son who was in the police force on the streets of columbus. he said i don't want my son in columbus to be facing the kind of weapons that my son in iraq is facing. and we certainly shouldn't be facing those type of weapons in movie theaters in malls. >> yeah. like you fear that that is not going to be a presidential issue. there was a recent time poll that showed that 62% of people want to ban the sale of semi automatic weapons versus 35%

who feel that gun owners should be able to purchase whatever they want. and there was a similar poll that showed 63% of people favoring banning high-capacity magazines -- >> that's right. >> which allows shooters to fire multiple rounds. so with such wide-spread support for banning assault weapons, maybe it is not going to happen on the federal level, but at least the state level or local level. why hasn't this happened? >> sadly the nra has a great deal of power in state legislatures and rural america too. and one of the things that is really unfortunate is in some ways i wish these mayors could pass these laws at the city level. because frankly you would see these weapons outlawed in the aurora, colorados and every other city to washington, d.c. in a nanosecond. and there are some obvious unintended consequences in terms

of trafficking, et cetera. we need leadership. i wish that the president and michelle would hug their children and then turn around and say we are not going to have any of our children at threat in the malls, in the churches or wherever they are from a semi automatic weapon. >> i think see linda that there is such a disconnect between the fears that are out there that if you start down this path of banning assault weapons that that means that they are going to take our guns away. i think most people are capable of making distinctions between rational gun policy and overall banning of guns don't you think? >> absolutely i do. i wish we had more leadership. we ban things every day. we ban financial products that are danger. we ban toasters that would burn down your house. we ban chemicals in sippy cups.

>> right. >> people are capable of rational common sense solutions here, and these semi -- police don't use the semiautomatic weapons in most situations because they are too dangerous. you fire off too many rounds at one point in time. they wouldn't be using them back. >> well, let's talk about the trend, because there's an abc "washington post" poll that shows this gradual erosion of support for stricter gun control laws from 67% in 1999 to 52% in 2011. although it does say 52%. but you have seen a shift. why have the attitudes shifted over time? >> well, i think there are a couple of things and in some ways ironically i think these dramatic mass shootings have done a disservice, because what people will conclude is this person is crazy, and there isn't a lot that you could do about

it. i personally believe you can make sure they didn't have access to a nuclear weapon or semiautomatic weapon. what we need to focus on is someone is dying from guns every 15 minutes in this country. and that's what we need to stop. we need to have common sense regulation, and -- so in some these mass shootings are diminishing the desire to have common sense -- >> why? >> people figure there is nothing we can do about the kinds of things -- the gabby , there's nothing we can do about a crazy person and what we need to do is talk about common sense measures that we could take that would save people every day and frankly every 15 minutes.

>> talks to me about that. just quickly as a last question. what language should democrats be using to get a reasonable level of gun regulation. i know you test language all the time. do you have a suggestion? >> yes, three things. and ironically you modeled it. common sense thing ration. take about the fact that we support the second amendment. there were no semi automatic weapons at the time of the second amendment. we don't need these weapons that even our police feel are too dangerous to use on the streets in the hands of civilians. >> all right. celinda, awesome. i appreciate you coming on a terrible day, but you really shed light on a matter that has a lot of heat. coming up next we'll go to colorado to get local reaction. philip kaufman asks

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there is an eyewitness describing this morning's mass shooting in aurora, colorado. if you listen to those accounts it really is heart rengding colorado is no stranger to tragedies of this kind. we're going to go to denver colorado and david sirota he isco host of the run down. which is a radio talk show. he just came off of his show and is joining us by skype. thank for joining us david. >> thanks for having me. >> you get. what has the response been from your guests? what have you been tlaerg in colorado? >> a lot of the discussion is obviously around gun issues and -- and that would have

stopped anything. whether -- if there were better controls, and -- excuse me -- there was a debate in the legislature about reducing gun background checks in the last legislature here. so the gun issue has continued to come up since columbine, and i think a lot of people are just struggling for answers and what keeps coming around in this issue is would gun control have really stopped this in had the assault weapon ban been in place, the alleged shooter would not have been able to at least legally purchase the gun he purchased. i do think there's questions about whether in the individual case any tougher gun laws could have stopped somebody like this. i think what scares people so much is this was not -- it doesn't appear to be a crime of passion, it appears to be a premedicated, calculated almost military-style assaults.

and that raises the idea that people don't just necessarily, quote unquote, snap. some people actually plan these things. >> i guess that's a really important point. the issue of how you can detect whether somebody is going to snap or not. this was a good student. a smart young man. never had a ticket no problem, no history of anything. and the issue about mental health, and how you can identify somebody obviously we'll learn more as these next days come about, but what do you do with somebody like that? >> i -- i don't think there is a great answer, and i think that if we're a mature country what we need to say is look there is no single answer to any individual case like this; that this is most likely -- if you are going to be honest about it -- this is a question of a society that is economically stratified under incredible

stress basically flooded in guns -- there is incredible amounts of pressure on people, and we haven't really financed a -- a -- a proper mental health infrastructure. you mix all of that in to one stew and this is probably going to be a side effect. and i think the question for america is are we willing to take anything all of the table when we discuss that? or are we willing to say this is a tolerable side effect of what we basically created? i don't think it is tolerable, but we need everything, gun control, mental health questions and even the economy on the table. >> totally agree with you. you wrote a very passionate column this morning on your blog, and authorities are referring to the shooting suspect as a loan wolf, you call

him a terrorist. has your view evolved over the day or are you still there? >> what i really have cemented over the day, first and foremost you couldn't rule out the idea that this person is a terrorist. i'm not saying i know anything more than you know or anybody else, but when you have such a planned military-style assault to simply rule out -- even if it is a lone wolf i think it's cavalier. i think it begs us to ask the question, what is terrorism? is terrorism only the narrowly-defined idea has it has been defined as, or is terrorism something even bigger and something that doesn't have a geographic location, an ethnicity, a political ideal

olg, because i think those are tough questions and they are not reafuring questions either. >> what does it do though? how would that impact your evaluation of what needs to happen going forward? >> well, if we are going to deal with terrorism wholistically, if we're going to deal with it in the way the cia tells us to deal with it -- >> profiling all of the investment -- >> it forces us to say, okay we have a problem in the united states, and the problem cannot be simply summed up with phrases like al-qaida. we have clear complex problems in our society that are driving not just extern alter ris threats, but we have internal questions we need to ask ourselves. i'm not saying patriot act. i'm saying have a better deeper

understand of why people might want to terrorize our communities. >> let me switch gears and ask you whether you played or whether your listeners had a response to the comments from for example loui who basically blamed the victims for not being armed? >> the response to that -- and we talked a lot about this. you heard a lot of people saying if somebody would have been armed maybe they could have stopped it. and his comments were so insensitive. but there are people out there who want to believe that. because it's reassuring. more people just need to pack heat. forgetting of course the details of the situation. it's a dark room. there's tear gas going off. the alleged shooter is wearing a bullet proof vest and a helmet. i'm not really clear what more

arms in that room would do in that situation and i think we trick ourselves into believing that being a hero in that situation is a very difficult situation. the notion that this means we should arm ourselves even more. >> i completely agree that it is absurd to believe that somebody who busts into a theater and is mowing people down that you would be able to struggle to get in your pants or purse -- it ain't going to happen. anyway, last question are you going to push for president obama to address gun violence in a more meaningful way? >> absolutely. i think we need to have an honest discussion about this.

i want to make this point because i think it's important. we need to have a discussion about gun control in this country, but we need to not belief that gun control can stop all of these incidents. we had very tough gun laws on the book -- >> we're having a few issues with your skype. david, you know what i'm sorry, i'm going to have to cut you off, but i get what you are saying, and everybody should take a look at david on salon.com. one of the five stages of grief is anger. it's easy to focus our anger and blame guns for the tragedy. but is that fair? is that doing what we should we doing today? and we have an open-minded gun advocate joining us next. connect with "the war room" >>it's a call to arms.

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a whopping 47% of american adults have a gun on their property according to a 2011 gallup poll. that's a lot of people and a lot of guns. and we always hear guns don't kill people, people do. and it's a familiar refrain explaining why gun control is not going to prevent tragedies like today and that's the crux of the problem. the divide between two sides of the gun-control debate is really huge. is there any way to bring the two sides together in a rational way. i'm joined by richard feldman. richard is the president of the independent fire arm owner's

association. he is a former law enforcement official. she joins us from new hampshire via skype. thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you for having me. >> you bet. as a former nra insider, and washington insider, and law enforcement official, how do you respond to the people saying that the lack of gun control contributes to what our guest radio host who was just on called domestic terrorism? >> well that's a -- kind of a neat sound bite and i agree with a great deal of what he just said on your show. i think there are different issue, and different solutions to different issues. there's the criminal misuse of firearms, the negligent misuse of firearms and then there's

this tragedy like last night in colorado which is a deranged individual. when it occurs it is often tragic in the consequences and the numbers. i think has as americans, we don't really ask the right kind of questions regarding this debate. we talk about gun control versus gun rights. i think we ask questions that divide us instead of questions that we can agree upon. >> so talk about that. what -- what is it that we can agree upon? we, meaning people who want to see violence like this stopped and believe there should be gun control, and people who are strong -- strongly believe in the second amendment. what can be agreed upon? >> if you ask the question to gun owners and non-gun owners alike, do you support laws and regulations intended to keep the

guns out of the hands of violent predatory criminals, you would find almost unanimous agreement. but it is important to be clear without all sorts of hidden messages in your question. >> i totally agree with you. however, when it comes to for example, closing the loophole on the gun show so -- with 40% of the guns being sold by private sellers, when it comes to that, if you want to control who gets the guns why would there be an objection to closing that on the part of the nra? >> surprisingly the nra doesn't so much object to having

background checks before the transfer of a firearm at gun shows. i think their objection and wayne lafayette has testified about that in the past. i think the issue becomes the slippery slope. i think there are two issues within that question. at gun shows themselves -- they are very different from just the sale of a firearm. if i sell a gun, i'm going to sell it to one of four individuals, a friend, a neighbor, a coworker, or a relative. i know who i sold the gun to. if i was selling my collection at a gun show and i think gun shows are wonderful. i'll get full value for my guns. i don't have a clue who i am selling the guns to. >> right. >> i think we can fix that problem in a way that protects gun owners gun sellers, and

eliminates the small number of people who would be stopped by the background check. it's around 1%. but we have to take into consideration that this is really a big issue, and one part of the puzzle doesn't answer the question. there are over 500,000 firearms stolen in this country every year. >> right. and that's a problem too. there needs to be greater enforcement of that. i'm sorry to put you off. unfortunately we're coming near the end. promise you will come back on. that's richard feldman, president of the independent fire arm owners association. coming up, final thoughts on a really difficult day. we'll be back in a minute.

ñtt thank you for joining us tonight at the end of a very difficult day. the emotions inside of our studio today ran from sadness and frustration to helplessness and anger. we wanted to comfort the families in colorado we wanted to run home and hug our own kids. shake our fists at the assault rifles that allow someone to shoot 70 people without taking a breath, and doing something anything to prevent another tragedy, and i expect you felt a lot of the same things. mostly, though today, the

stories for me of the victims haunted me. the notion that parents like me were frantically calling their children on cell phones in that movie theater as one parent wrote, cell phones that were in pockets that were ringing and going to voicemail, cell phones of dead children that went unanswered. i think that about the faces of the dead, and i look at the face of the shooter. he could have been one of those kids. why? why? why did this happen? can we prevent it from happening again? these are the right questions. we may never have the right answers. but one thing is certain. these young victims would have wanted us to try. the future victims of the next senseless tragedy would want us to try too. as we close tonight, let's take

a moment of silence to acknowledge their young lives. [♪ somber music ♪] >>every day we've got to work as hard as we possibly can to make sure that we get that show on the air. >>60 seconds to air is brought to you by dodge. >>put your heart and soul into it, work as hard as you can and make sure that you put out the best product. >>at dodge, we feel exactly the same way. we could take an elevator right? let me show you what happens if i take the elevator and i push this, i'm missing the show so we're going down the stairs. i can do it like this right? i can just fly but one of my producers couldn't apparently. >>i did have an accident down the stairs. the stairways are a challenge. i had my laptop with my iphone heading down the stairs, it was five minutes before air. i still don't know what happened. everything just fell.